Don't go overboard with Workshop content!

[Jackpot]

I’m sorry about my last reply getting snarky. But.
This is a BIG but.
I actually really want pogs in the game.
I want to be…
The TU Pog Champ.
But really though, I’m not sure how things like Pickle Rick and POG champ could be implemented in the game if the content made has to be original. At most I can see maybe references, but it’s not like TU doesn’t already have those.

[DanMiller]

I’m going to reply to a bunch of points, so buckle in.

@lottery248

if this turned out unappealing, then people would simply save up for the workshop model rather than buying anything else, which would be just putting up a paywall in front of the workshop, and let alone a type of players dedicated to grinding.

Yes, but a paywall in front of the Workshop would be good. It keeps players active in the Plaza and in Game Worlds to earn units (for both the Workshop models and official model store), provides an amazing money sink, and acts as a part of the sole reward system this game offers. Having players earn their cool avatar and overall appearance provides a sense of accomplishment, much like purchasing the million unit crown does.

@lottery248

right now i only see a solution is to give official accessories to have certain functionality. there are known examples, like remote controls.
workshop has its constraints like lacking native animated effects (?). something like programmable RGB lighting things could be added for custom animated stuff they want to show.

Regardless of the level of function that a Workshop accessory would provide, this still undermines the core reward system this game offers. Other than buying condo items, what else is there to work for? Why do I need to utilize the Game Worlds or events? It’s to earn the awesome milestones and to be able to afford the items the game offers. If I can suddenly just get workshop items for free then what is the point?

You mention that Official accessories could have unique functions like animations, or lights, etc. But then what am I working towards? Just a light that surrounds my character? Using an RC car as an example, if I wanted to I could just Workshop my character into a small car. Then I’d even be able to wear items as the car (better than normal RC Car item)! All I’d be missing is controls and sounds. Is that all I’d be working towards when trying to unlock the RC Car? Controls and sounds?

My point is, if you’re giving out any equip for free, why would anybody use the only built in reward system of items? A good example of this is the Game World Ports. Absolutely nobody goes there and it sits mainly unused. Why? Because PixelTail made it too easy to join from anywhere in game with the ability to create private rooms. They provided an easier shortcut and undermined what has been a prominent map feature since the game’s creation.

@nahmaz

don’t agree with the idea of vet players not being distinguished from new players simply because of workshop models. I’ve hit all milestones and participated heavily in almost every holiday and it shows on my character. Even with a regular character model I am loaded with effects and milestone rewards

I agree with you here, I’m the same way. I like being able to show off all the work I’ve put into this game through my character. I want to show off what I’ve accomplished. If accessories can just be freely added to any player with any character model, making them look however they want, what do I have to show for all my work and accomplishments?

@nahmaz

And if people don’t have interest in different things like condos or fishing (and therefore have nothing to spend units on) I don’t see any actual fixes here, unless you’re assuming people are buying a steady stream of models and EVENTUALLY accessories every time they play, which even I wouldn’t do.

I believe that the fix here is putting character customization behind a paywall, ranging from cheap to expensive, including official content and Workshop player models. It would give players something to work towards and feel accomplished about once they achieve their goals for their appearance. It would introduce a money sink for rich players, as well as preventing the core reward system of the game from being undermined. It would be hard to feel accomplished about your appearance when anybody can look like anything.

@nahmaz

What I mean by “you want vr chat community” is you will create it not bring them over specifically.

Totally agreed. I think totally free character customization would promote this behavior.

@nahmaz

I don’t want to lose good content because of niche fanbases that are internet strong yet dev approved (because there’s nothing wrong with them). I have nothing against them but I’m not playing this game if it’s just anime girls and furries. And making them cost money or be slimmed down won’t change it, it’ll just make the quieter ones feel left out.

This is exactly what will be avoided with character customization you can work towards. If PixelTail introduced a character model store, with LOTS of cheap through expensive official player models, it will give new players something they can buy to customize their appearance, while working towards being able to afford the most expensive Workshop playermodels (all at a fixed expensive price (maybe 100k?)). It incentivizes actually participating in the public game and not hiding in a clique where everyone can customize everything for free.

@moroheiya

I don’t know why people want restrictions on the content they use freely.
No one likes being deprived of liberty.
If you think overuse is not good, why don’t you call out in the game?
should can free to agree or disagree with that opinion.

Once the producers allow this opinion, we will be forced.
Freedom should be protected.

I certainly disagree here, @moroheiya. If too much freedom of customization is added to the game, players won’t have an incentive to participate in Game Worlds, events, and other unit-earning methods publically in-game. Above I used the Game World Ports as an example. Once PixelTail allowed players to create and join Game Worlds from anywhere in the menu, there was no reason for anyone to go to the Game World Ports again. Now you can see it as the barren wasteland it is.

Having players work for their customization will not only keep the entire game and it’s reward system alive, but also provide players a sense of accomplishment once they earn the customization they desire.

@ScienceBird

• I think free Workshop models are here to stay, mainly because making them paid now would upset a lot of people, and I assume they thought about making them paid before release, but they went with this, and it doesn’t seem likely they’ll go against that

Some reasoning for why Workshop models being free isn’t so bad:

• The base models in the game are already free
• A player model is a pretty fundamental thing, it’s not an extra accessory, it’s a basic avatar, so it makes sense they’d want that immediately available and customizable

I definitely think Workshop models should stay, but certainly not for free. My reasons for this I’ve said extensively in this post alone.

You mention that a player model is a fundamental thing, and I agree! A new player would certainly be interested in changing their player models as one of the first things they do. so why not incentivize them to experience the rest of the game and earn units to do so? And as they play more, and earn more units, they can purchase even more customization options for their character. This offers a sense of accomplishment and pride for one’s character, and keeps the game alive.

Regarding base player models being free as a reason Workshop items should be too: Introducing a player model shop would fix this. It was done in GMT and worked FANTASTICALLY. On top of that, all of the incentive and reward system reasons I’ve mentioned before. This keeps the integrity of the game itnact.

@ScienceBird

This isn’t a full solution, but here’s a little idea:

• After customizable characters are implemented (To clarify, I mean things like custom clothing, hair styles, even face and body type, and for goofy models like skeletons and milk cartons, they’ll have their own more quirky options), add Workshop support for custom accessories/modifications of the default models

I think if Workshop accessories were as basic as this, I could get behind it. I would still prefer a cheap unit cost of say, 500 units per design in order to keep the intregrity of the reward system, but overall a good idea when as simple as you say. Free things draw incentive away from playing the game and earning units.

@ScienceBird

Workshop stuff simply shouldn’t be able to eclipse the base game, it just makes the game kind of worthless for items, that’s what I’m aiming to avoid here)

Yes yes yes.

[ScienceBird]

I said this before, but personally I’m not really against paid models in general, but I can see why people are, and the whole situation is so messy.

I’m not saying Workshop models/models in general shouldn’t be paid, more that they seemingly won’t be paid given the circumstances.

[Jackpot]

I would be fine with either way in terms of the base player models from workshop. I think since it was free to start, we’re not losing anything from workshop support. I also want to state here that I disagree with the whole ‘I’m only buying controls and lights’ comment. I think there’s a big difference between RC and walking around dressed as a car.

[DanMiller]

I guess that was a litte dramatic, here’s a better example.

If somebody uploaded a Sun Orbital lookalike pet to the Workshop, the only difference would be the yellow light that the Official one emits (from user lottery’s own restriction). The only reason I’d be working towards that 100k for the real Sun Oribital is that light.

You know what I’m trying to say?

[DanMiller]

@ScienceBird

I said this before, but personally I’m not really against paid models in general, but I can see why people are, and the whole situation is so messy.

I’m not saying Workshop models/models in general shouldn’t be paid, more that they seemingly won’t be paid given the circumstances.

Gotcha! Well I hope the circumstances do change, for I dream of a fantastic future for this game! I only bring these points up because I love GMT and Tower Unite and want to see it thrive.

[Lefty]

Gotta say I wouldn’t be a huge fan of someone creating a lookalike of the paper crown.

[nahmaz]

Are we sure people can upload those tho? I even just read a thread where they discussed the rules not allowing workshop uploads of in game TU content.

Question regarding the upload rules

In the rules for the Workshop it says to not upload game content/items that have not been modified. My question is: what is and isn’t considered a modification and how strict is this rule regarding items that can’t be purchased? I’d assume that major texture/model changes would be alright, but what about small clusters of items from gameworlds? I am doing a build themed around Little Crusaders, and I’d like to include some Little Crusaders map props, other than the Birb Statue milestone, as a li…

And I get the paywall thing, but at the same time I don’t. As I said, it’s not that hard to get 50k, 100k, and I don’t see people constantly buying new ones all the time so I don’t see how it will help people with units to spend and nothing to do. I have over a hundred npcs with character models in my condo and each npc costs 100k, and I’ve never intentionally farmed units, just played games. You get your first 100k model and we’re back to this same situation where people with 1000 hours have the same thing as someone with 1 hour (that’s where milestone rewards come in).

[DanMiller]

@Lefty

Gotta say I wouldn’t be a huge fan of someone creating a lookalike of the paper crown

Exactly this @Lefty. And even if it would be against the rules, per @nahmaz’s post, why would I grind for a 1m Unit crown when I can get any crown I want from the Workshop? Some may say “prestige, and accomplishment”. And that proves my point exactly. There’s nothing earned or accomplished with free Workshop content.

@nahmaz

I have over a hundred npcs with character models in my condo and each npc costs 100k, and I’ve never intentionally farmed units, just played games

@nahmaz

As I said, it’s not that hard to get 50k, 100k, and I don’t see people constantly buying new ones all the time so I don’t see how it will help people with units to spend and nothing to do.

@nahmaz

I don’t see how it will help people with units to spend and nothing to do.

@nahmaz

just played games

Sorry to quote you extensively (not trying to be mean!), but even what you say shows that having a Unit cost promotes active gameplay. Having to pay and have a constant Unit sink whenever somebody wants a new playermodel will keep players actively participating in the public Plaza and Game Worlds. It will support TU’s reward system by giving players a sense of accomplishment for working for/earning their appearance, much like GMT.

[nahmaz]

I feel there is a disconnect with what I’m saying. Or two of my points are being combined but they don’t make sense.

What I’m saying is that you start up TU for the first time, do a couple minigames, and you’re at the unit accumulation point of someone with 1000 hours. Workshop cost won’t add that much delay, just more of a temporary inconvenience for new people.

Also, there are some people saying “I need something to spend units on” I don’t believe workshop cost will alleviate that. You spend a couple hundred thousand on what you want and we’re back here. I think there’s an assumption that this will be a constant unit sink and I simply do not see that.

(want to re-iterate the concern of milestone clones being uploaded are probably not even allowed in the first place due to rules so we can worry about it but there’s probably an official response to this i imagine)

[Melonplex]

@nahmaz

milestone clones being uploaded are probably not even allowed in the first place due to rules

I feel like this is less of a probably and more of a definitely, because according to the sixth rule on the Rules page, straight up clones are not allowed.

[moroheiya]

I don’t understand the game port example, it’s not that simple that the game port is not used.
I won’t talk about this now.

I’m against paying for the use of a player model.
It’s free for men, women and skeletons. If you only pay for the workshop, you will get special treatment the workshop.
If there is a paid model and a free model, the free model will be used reluctantly until you buy the paid model.
This is not good.

I can’t say anything about the workshop equipment.
If it’s free, it’s a problem, but if it’s expensive, I don’t think you won’t use it.
I think workshop equipment should be treated like any other equipment. (Rolling pet workshop is the same price as dogs and cats, floating pets are the same price as the sun, etc.)
Treat the workshop, I think that’s the best way to coexist.

Translation source
ゲームポートを例に出すのは理解できない、ゲームポートが使用されてないのはそんな単純な話ではない。
この話は今はしない。

プレイヤーモデルの使用にお金をとるのは反対です。
男や女、骸骨にも無料でなることができます。ワークショップにだけお金をとるのはワークショップを特別扱いすることになります。
有料モデルと無料モデルが存在すれば、無料モデルは有料モデルを買うまで嫌々使うものになってしまいます。
これは良くない

ワークショップ装備品についてはなんとも言えない。
無料なら問題だが、高ければ使わないとは思えない。
私はワークショップ装備品を、他の装備品と同じように扱うべきだと思う。(ローリングペットワークショップは犬や猫と同じ値段、フローティングペットは太陽と同じ値段など)
ワークショップも平等に扱う、それが一番の共存だと思う。

[lottery248]

@DanMiller

Yes, but a paywall in front of the Workshop would be good. It keeps players active in the Plaza and in Game Worlds to earn units (for both the Workshop models and official model store), provides an amazing money sink, and acts as a part of the sole reward system this game offers. Having players earn their cool avatar and overall appearance provides a sense of accomplishment, much like purchasing the million unit crown does.

as some people proposed to have extremely expensive types of workshop player models, what is the point if you could buy it using units?

there are eventually players dedicated to grinding for it. how much would the paywall be? 1 million? 10 million? even more (i think you are talking about a very expensive figure)? if like 1 million, just continuously play certain games and more likely you’d able to afford within a day or two, 10 times for 10 million.

for an even higher number, i really doubt if anyone would have sole dedication to playing this game just for that access, given the current experience that default skins were the minority. this time would rather undermine the workshop. yes, the systems’ rewards got back its dominance they were supposed to be, while the rest were isolated.

[CalculatorSpoon]

I don’t see why being able to customize your playermodel (besides wearables, equippables, etc.) shouldn’t be free. I like being able to just pick whatever workshop item I want to use, locking them behind a huge paywall would just make them more inconvenient to use.

I agree with having to buy workshop wearables/equippables since the in-game versions also have to be bought (besides milestones) but all default playermodels in the game are free and workshop playermodels have been free for almost a year and a half so changing that now wouldn’t make much sense.

Also I don’t agree with making workshop items have huge paywalls, I like having more things to buy (especially since I already have a ton of Units right now) but making workshop items cost hundreds of thousands of units or making people buy things that are already free right now is a bit much.

[Ris]

Regarding your point on the player models, I believe that putting a price on it really wouldn’t be a good idea. TU has a good thing going with its freedom of expression and a price on player models could be a threat to that. The player should be allowed as wide a range of means to express themself as possible. Needing to pay for player models would just limit their choices. I have no desire to feel accomplishment for earning my model, I just want to express myself. Felt the same way in GMT too.

I do love the discussion that this is bringing, though. Interesting ideas.

[DanMiller]

@moroheiya

I’m against paying for the use of a player model.
It’s free for men, women and skeletons. If you only pay for the workshop, you will get special treatment the workshop.
If there is a paid model and a free model, the free model will be used reluctantly until you buy the paid model.
This is not good.

@lottery248

given the current experience that default skins were the minority.

@CalculatorSpoon

but all default playermodels in the game are free

This is why I think there should be a new shop with tons of new Official player models. This would balance a paid Workshop and allow new players early customization while working to purchase more expensive (including Workshop) models.

@lottery248

as some people proposed to have extremely expensive types of workshop player models, what is the point if you could buy it using units?

there are eventually players dedicated to grinding for it. how much would the paywall be? 1 million? 10 million? even more (i think you are talking about a very expensive figure)? if like 1 million, just continuously play certain games and more likely you’d able to afford within a day or two, 10 times for 10 million.

Buying them with Units is exactly the point. I don’t think that Workshop items should be unobtainable or extremely hard to get, I just think that like with most other cosmetics in game, you should have to do your fair work for them. This encourages players to actually play and use the content the developers have created. It would add more to the game to work towards and spend units on.

@nahmaz

What I’m saying is that you start up TU for the first time, do a couple minigames, and you’re at the unit accumulation point of someone with 1000 hours. Workshop cost won’t add that much delay, just more of a temporary inconvenience for new people.

Also, there are some people saying “I need something to spend units on” I don’t believe workshop cost will alleviate that. You spend a couple hundred thousand on what you want and we’re back here. I think there’s an assumption that this will be a constant unit sink and I simply do not see that.

@CalculatorSpoon

I don’t agree with making workshop items have huge paywalls, I like having more things to buy (especially since I already have a ton of Units right now) but making workshop items cost hundreds of thousands of units or making people buy things that are already free right now is a bit much.

I think having unlimited player models to spend a decent amount of Units on each would be a considerably decent money sink. It would directly address your points of a new user having the same amount of Units as a veteran player, and giving users more things to buy and earn.

If you have so many units (which I don’t doubt!) I’m sure you must have bought all of the customization items by now since they’re so cheap. What else is there to spend units on now? Only condo customization, and not everybody is into that. Having desirable player models cost Units would give players more to spend on and in turn, give other cosmetics more worth. It would also encourage players to actively participate in games and events to earn more units.

@Ris

I believe that putting a price on it really wouldn’t be a good idea. TU has a good thing going with its freedom of expression and a price on player models could be a threat to that. The player should be allowed as wide a range of means to express themself as possible. Needing to pay for player models would just limit their choices. I have no desire to feel accomplishment for earning my model, I just want to express myself.

By this point why not just make everything in the game free? What would be the point of Units at all of you want nothing to hinder your freedom of expression? Might as well remove all Unit earning methods since there’s no need when everything is free.

It sounds like people just want this game to become a modeling sandbox where there’s no structure or core game play. Might as well play VR Chat if that’s the gameplay you’re looking for

[Melonplex]

@DanMiller

purchase more expensive (including Workshop) models.

I don’t know if this has been brought up in this topic, but isn’t one of the main reasons they don’t support purchasing Workshop models because they can be removed by the uploader at any time? With the furniture/physics items for Condos, if an item gets removed you can just swap it out with something else. If you’re buying a specific model what is supposed to happen if it gets removed? The farthest extent I feel they could go with playermodels would be a one time purchase that allows use of any playermodel from the workshop.

[CalculatorSpoon]

@DanMiller

I think having unlimited player models to spend a decent amount of Units on each would be a considerably decent money sink. It would directly address your points of a new user having the same amount of Units as a veteran player, and giving users more things to buy and earn.

Yeah, I agree with giving people more things to buy, but making things you can do for free cost units is just dumb in my opinion. It’s like making the default condo cost 100k Units. Having more models made by the devs is fine, since the devs could add stuff like effects or emotes that workshop models don’t have, but workshop playermodels are already free and a lot of people (including myself) wouldn’t be too happy if they were put behind a large paywall.

@DanMiller

By this point why not just make everything in the game free? What would be the point of Units at all of you want nothing to hinder your freedom of expression? Might as well remove all Unit earning methods since there’s no need when everything is free.

Having one aspect of the game being free (playermodels) is way different compared to making every single item in the game free. It doesn’t even make sense why you should have to pay for them, none of the playermodels you can use right now are locked behind paywalls.

@DanMiller

It sounds like people just want this game to become a modeling sandbox where there’s no structure or core game play. Might as well play VR Chat if that’s the gameplay you’re looking for

Similar to the last point, I have no idea how making playermodels free makes the ENTIRE game a sandbox with no point whatsoever. Plus, you’re going to have to buy most of the workshop items anyway:
https://i.imgur.com/oEuYyQh.png
So the only parts of the workshop that will be free are the playermodels and Game World maps. I seriously don’t see how playermodels being free automatically removes the entire point of the game.

[nahmaz]

@DanMiller

It sounds like people just want this game to become a modeling sandbox where there’s no structure or core game play. Might as well play VR Chat if that’s the gameplay you’re looking for

Couldn’t disagree more at this oversimplification. TU is a minigame centric game, I don’t think putting models behind a paywall will add any structure or core gameplay to it. It’ll just inconvenience new people temporarily. And maybe some people constantly buy items and models, out of my crew, I think a few people will rotate models sure, but maybe they wouldn’t if it’s behind a cost. I don’t consider that a good thing. Why is letting people freely change models considered something people need to earn? I think maybe finding a better way to spend units is better than limiting existing features.

Also even if condo isn’t for everyone, ok? Arcade is coming out soon, upgrade store will be soon, buy all the items in appearance tab, try to get the royal flush achievement in the casino, buy all condos even if you don’t use them, whatever. Don’t even spend units just have fun maybe?

[vtipoman]

I think it’d be cool either way