Don't go overboard with Workshop content!

Hello! Long time player and backer since GMT!

I’ve often lurked on these forums, browsing the suggestions of the playerbase. I think lots of the suggestions here are great! It provides great feedback for Mac and the rest of the devs. However, there are a few certain types of suggestions I see now and again that I couldn’t disagree more with, and that is Workshop Content.

I believe that the more options for Workshop content this game offers, the less unique and fun the game will become. What will be the point of having clothing stores in game if I can just wear whatever item I want from the Workshop? What will be the point of buying furniture in-game if I can just download it from the Workshop? I think this point matters most when it comes to equipables.

What’s the point of working for anything in-game if I can just download it from the Workshop? The hours it takes to earn milestones will be unrewarding and pointless. Units will serve little to no purpose for the game. This can already be seen with player models (I fully agree with the other post saying they should cost units!).

Now, I understand that some Workshop content is good for the game. I think the licensed content from GMT (player models, equipables, etc.) are what made the game fun and unique. However, adding too much of these at no cost will make the entire game a sandbox where the player has ultimate control. I personally do not want to see this game become the next VRChat, and fear that Workshop content will devolve the game into it’s clone. That’s never what GMT or TU has been about IMO. I would far prefer that the devs continue to add unique, unlockable, and purchasable (not microtransactions) items to the game that we can earn .

3 Likes

I wouldn’t sweat workshop content so much.

Tower has a distinct charm, and it really shines in gameworlds and the plaza. Workshop can’t do anything to detract from that. If custom player models are distracting or conflict too much with Tower’s style you can disable them. You still have the devs coming up with unique environments, NPCs, advertisements and artwork that build the world of Tower up.

Condos are where players are able to craft their own corner in Tower, and I think Workshop is a fantastic tool to help us design our own separate homes.

The built in content for Tower will always be more optimized and always available. A good amount of furniture and accessories also have custom properties that can not be replicated through workshop, some of which most likely never will be. (ex: Galaxy materials, security cam functionality, sports goal counters, laser projectors, etc.)

I tend to try to use a very minimal amount of workshop items because, even if you have a top of the line PC, people who flood their condo with workshop items usually struggle to load. I know this will be improved in the future, but built-in items will always be more polished and reliable. I see your point with equippables though.

Almost all of the milestone items have some unique element to them that can’t be replicated with workshop. Aside from some static models, you’re not going to see anything like the Ball Race displays or the Ferris Wheel on the workshop. Not to mention things like morphs and weapon equips.

This part confuses me, player models never cost anything and people still buy wearables to put on workshop models.

This is an old comparison. Claiming an influx of player content would devolve Tower into nothing more than a VRChat clone completely undermines Tower’s core design and offerings. Totally different games on entirely different platforms. Its apples to oranges.

I agree, but there is no reason this can’t happen alongside furthering workshop support. We already have unique content to earn in-game, with more to come with Arcade prizes.

Even with workshop, I started to learn 3D Modeling and rigging from scratch just to make my own player models. Once I’ve fulled modeled, textured and rigged my own Player Model it really gives me the feeling I earned it (even if they could still use some work lol). Same way the paper crown I put on my custom model makes me feel I earned it with its million unit price tag. I can even show off both at the same time.

tl;dr
I totally get where you’re coming from and I ain’t dogging you, I think its a pretty valid concern but I don’t see it being an issue. I just feel further workshop support isn’t going to take away from the content the develops create themselves.

9 Likes

the issue i have is with this

this is more so talking about condo items and so on
i dont use condo and dont really decorate it since i dont find that part of tu that satisfying or fun, i rather decorate my character.
so why am i playing to get units when i can just get given any model whenever i want, no grinding or anything, the pm in GMT was like 70% of what made gmt fun since i grinded towards better ones and ones i wanted, then the games were fun but my character was the main focus, but now thats free.
i have no reason to play to get units since the main part of the gmt has been made free for me and now i dont have a main reason to play, since all i need to do is open TU and click a couple of buttons and the thing i would have spent hours playing and grinding to get is given to me in a second, its just boring as hell.

then there is also no major reason to buy most of the accessories since hats and stuff can just be placed onto a workshop model, making them void and useless, also not to mention a good model that is ruined since the hats dont fit right. and you cant manually go in and fix the offsets for certain hats.

there is pretty much nothing i can spend my units on for customisation other than small little things, and i just want something that i can spend more money on character wise in game that isnt workshop related that will make it more worth it, a system with cooking to be able to get hats and such and dump lots of units and items into it to give really cool things to hats like special effects EG: make the hats have something similar to the black holes from event horizon

TLDR

.i dont like condos i prefer character customisation
.workshop models are free
.why should i play to get units when workshop is free
.why should i get hats and so on when most of them can just be put onto the base workshop model
.i want more expensive character customisation and for it to be better
.please allow me to dish out units into character customisation rather than making everything in it free or cheap, without it i have no major reason to play other than meh i feel like ballrace
.also i know upgrades will be a big thing, but i been waiting forever, i just need something please…

2 Likes

but how the fees for character customisation be implemented?
indeed making the customised character more expensive can get it more realistic, but then newcomers having insufficient units to upgrade their own character will leave them like a noob. i am not sure how you define expensive, as a newcomer the amount like 20~30k units could be a big hassle.

probably they should introduce the accessories with attractive cosmetic effects, or more handheld items with actual functionality, with those being expensive instead.

some things costing like 100k units and so on for really rare cosmetics with impressive effects on them that are only for visuals.
and for people not having enough units to to get them, they should just get the units if that want it so bad, isnt that the same thing as like the paper crown, and more expensive condos and so on, although the condos have a purpose, but the cosmetics im on about literally wont affect anything in game, so they are not needed, but are there for people like me who want to save up to get them.

the functional items are just for you to use it in public areas like plazas.
also i haven’t seen the upgrade store up, ugh.

Thank you for your replies everyone! Lots of thoughtful responses so far.

I’d like to first clarify my viewpoints, and then offer my proposed solutions to the issues I raise.

I do not think the current offerings of Workshop content are bad. Workshop implementation in it’s current form is a great way to loophole the issue of licensed content. When Tower Unite first was released for people to play, there was actually no licensed content at all. Licensed content is what made GMT so popular and fun to play. I knew that this would need to be implemented into TU one way or another or the game would fail.

I agree with user Baby_Blue when they said that Condos are a player’s own little slice of the Tower. I think the Workshop content in regards to condos is very well implemented at the moment. Having to dish out possibly well over 1 million units to have an entire map that is totally unique I think is a wonderful cost to pay for something so customized. I also believe that the future plans for condo customization such I/O buttons and dialogue NPCs are a good addition (at the right price), however that is less to do with Workshop content.

I believe the majority of my worry comes from character customization. As it stands, any user can join TU as a fresh noob and instantly appear as any player model they desire, at no cost. Back in GMT, I used to be impressed when I saw a cool looking avatar. I knew that player worked hard to look so stunning. Now, I hardly have a second thought when it comes to anyones avatar. I believe that Workshop content for player models are necessary, but certainly not for free.

Other than player models, I firmly believe that any further implementation of Workshop content for character customization will be a major detriment. I mainly am referring to equipables and cosmetic items, but this also extends to effects and pets as well. Every single items offered in game, whether it be from shop or milestone, will become worthless. Why would I need to work towards a firework launcher when I can ANYTHING I want from the Workshop? What’s so special about a Sun Orbital when I can get whatever I want to follow me? Adding in further Workshop content for character customization (items and equips) undermines the customization already offered in game.

MY PROPOSED SOLUTIONS

  • Condos

In regards to Condos, change nothing in regards to Workshop content. I believe the way that is currently is more than fair with the cost, especially because it is personal and private to the player. It’s separate from the Lobby. The planned I/O updates are cool as well. I would draw the line at Workshop condo maps. What would be the point of buying different condos if I can just download whatever I want from the shop?

  • Player Models

For player models, I believe an inventory system would work great. Have a browser like there currently is, except with a vastly more in-depth preview system. A player would then have the option to purchase any player model for units (maybe ~50-100k?) and that model would be added to their PM inventory. From then on, players can select any purchased player model from their PM inventor and apply it.

I also think that PixelTail should implement an in-game player model shop for much cheaper than Workshop prices would be. This way new players have access to cheaper models and have a way to express themselves, and would not make Workshop content necessary.

  • Items and Equipables

I am fully against any implementation of any Workshop items or equipables. What would be the point of any of the shops? The milestones? Grinding any of the gameworlds? Currently, working towards equipables and items to customize my character are the only thing keeping my playing TU. As LittleLuke mentioned, not all players care much about customizing their condo. Alot of players find joy in making the representation of themself cool as can be. What’s the point if no work is required to do so?

IF Workshop implementation of items and equipables is inevitable, I atleast hope they all cost hundreds of thousands of units each. But regardless, I would rather official equipables.

I believe that’s all I have for now, thanks for taking the time to read!

TL;DR
Some Workshop content is necessary, such as condos and player models, but certainly not without a price. Free, unearned, Workshop content undermines shops, milestones, and earning units, and the game as a whole. Workshop items and equipables would ruin any sense of accomplishment as it stands, and would drive players away from having to participate in Game Worlds and events.

@macdguy @Caboose700

1 Like

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?

Hard pass on this one. Not until we get more default player models that aren’t ugly placeholder Fuse characters.

I was really hoping for Workshop accessories for a while solely because most of the accessories already in the game are pretty boring imo, but with all the goofy cosmetics the Arcade is adding I’m not as concerned about it anymore.

4 Likes

I definitely agree with some of this, here’s my quick (-ish) take:

I believe it’s important in any game for there to be at least some clear intention of design, as in, the developers have a way to play that they have designed the game around, and are trying to deliver. This is why I think one should be careful adding lots of options/customization to any game, there isn’t really a problem with there being more options for people, but in the end the game should have at least a little bit of a core design, even if it’s very broad (A good solution is to have the options, but make them a little bit less visible, and make it clear they aren’t the intended method of play).

This is why stuff like Mutators will be an extra thing added on, and not like an option on a menu (At least as far as I understand it), they have designed these games to be played in a certain way, and although Mutators allow for people to experience it in a different way, it’s still important to distinguish that’s not what they intended when they were developing it.

Honestly I don’t really have a problem with the Workshop content being there, but I think there are ways it could be integrated to more clearly separate it from actual game content. Workshop maps that will eventually happen will most likely be on an entirely separate menu from the main maps, and most won’t give payouts. Workshop furniture is pretty solid in its design as is, and although I don’t have a strong opinion on it, I wouldn’t mind if player models were paid (Though I highly doubt that will happen). I assume the main counterargument for why player models are free is that they’re more basic and fundamental than items to add to your condo, or accessories, which makes sense. Accessories will be paid like furniture if I recall correctly, though I do think that, especially as Workshop customization grows, there may be an issue with Workshop accessories being a little “excessive”.

Beyond all that though, one thing I’d really like is simply for the non-Workshop variants to have features that distinguish them from Workshop stuff. Mainly player models, I know it’s been brought up before, but being able to have full customization of clothes and appearance would be a game changer, and give the core models more than enough edge over Workshop ones.

I think it’s a fair concern, but I believe there are ways to execute it that minimize these issues.

3 Likes

Totally agree with this part. If Workshop content is going to cost expensive units, then there should be official player models to coincide. I was thinking more among the lines of a new shop (the empty one in the Tower lobby perhaps?) that offered cheap basic models, that got more expensive the more unique they get.

2 Likes

The empty shop is gonna be the appearance store, so that seems appropriate

1 Like

Agreed! I didn’t realize that was the plan. That makes me slightly more optimistic that the reward system won’t be so useless. Of course, that depends on whether or not Workshop items will continue to be free!

I hate the idea of workshop pets, accessories, condos and equippables in all aspects of the game with a strong exception for the use of accessories, pets and equippables within condos. I think in plaza it completely ruins the feel of the game and makes working towards these things completely pointless, however, if in condos the owners had the ability to control what workshop content is allowed, I think this could truly make TU shine.

Imagine a Halo themed condo for instance, you could have players with energy swords and plasma pistols in a PVP map made by hand. I imagine the possibilities particularly with RP to be very exciting, however I would love for these to be restricted solely to condos, and I want the ability for condo owners to control what workshop content players are able to equip, if any at all.

Best case scenario, I’d love to be able to create areas within a condo where these would be allowed, so for instance, if you were to set up a teleporter to move someone into an arena, you could have it so they would be able to set their player model to something themed within the area, and once they leave the area it would no longer work.

On another note, I absolutely hate the idea of workshop condos. Imagine you spend your entire time in TU building up a map to be like a city, or to be themed like a videogame, only for someone to download a map from the workshop and get something identical or superior. I think this would be the breaking point for me, at that point I might just move back to Gmod.

7 Likes

Just want to pop in and mention that “Workshop Condos” refer to being able to upload your Condo Save File on the workshop, so that if you wanted to share your condo with others (granted they have the items needed) you can.

We’re reading and will continue reading all the comments here, just wanted to clarify that point. Thanks all for the feedback!

10 Likes

Thanks for clarifying, this has terrified me since I first saw it.

1 Like

Thanks for the input @Jackpot. I couldn’t agree more!

As I’ve said in previous posts, I too believe that workshop items, accessories, and equipables would be a detriment to the Plaza and all other game modes. Essentially, introducing workshop items and equipables undermines the sole reward system this game offers.

This can already be seen with player models. If PixelTail added a player model shop, offering original models for purchase, who would buy/use them when the Workshop offers the same and more for free? Free Workshop content, and workshop equipables, disincentivizes the use of the game’s core reward system by offering better (or the same) content at no cost.

And thank you very much for the response @Caboose700! That certainly clears things up in regards to “workshop condos”. Your ongoing support is much appreciated.

2 Likes

Y’all got a lot of unique takes on this, cool seeing everyone’s point of view. I think there are a few factors we need to wait and see play out:

  • The future built-in PMs and appearance options aren’t really defined (at least externally). They could have unique offerings that make them more desirable. Not to mention the tower devs already have proven to be talented in creating appealing and unique 3D assets.

  • Workshop PMs aren’t always viable. They likely won’t be supported in future PvP modes (primarily FPS). We already see this in lasertag, and will probably see it in Dueling and SNL. This is where new models and customization from PixelTail would be fantastic, and Workshop models would actually be detrimental to gameplay. You won’t spend majority of your time here, but its still a factor.

  • Tower already has many systems and activities to earn prestigious and desirable items/cosmetics. There are still many to come. Cooking and Ocean exploring will most likely require recurring costs (ingredients/boat rentals/etc.), this would give more value to units. Cosmic catsacks will have unique items to grind for, making them more desirable to grind for.

4 Likes

the solution to address the problem of cosmetic stores and reward systems being undermined is complicated. once again, i would wish to throw up another point.

if the player model customisation would be restricted, like would require to reach a level, or units, how could we balance between the existing players and the newcomers?

in this case, i personally would prefer keeping those models they had worn for existing players, while i would feel bad for the newcomers as their appearance would be too common. this kind of situation would be similar to the free players in Roblox, where not paying any real fund would get very limited number of cosmetics, leaving them too mutual to identify.

assuming now everyone would need to pay a certain amount of units to buy one, then where would the units go? who could set the price?

  • if units would be destroyed, then it would not only mean creators left unrewarded, as well as undermined especially for the ones less popular.
  • but if units would be sent to the creators, then i would feel this could potentially become a new form of microtransactions - creators could build up an empty model to ask or pay other users units. unless player-to-player MTA would be possible here.
  • how the price should be measured, or how to unlock?

what about player model uploads would require staffs’ approval? that would be the best solution i could say to prevent certain system rewards being voided using player models. however, this would possibly further worsen the burden for the existing staffs.

  • if they would moderate themselves, the game development would be somewhere slowed down - considering the developer or team members were mainly for those.
  • putting this kind of management to the players. developers and staffs would need to trust and communicate the targeted players properly - which, in some extent, the possible outcome would be similar to the above, not to mention that the members there could be possible trolls.

moderation is subject to subjective statements, which often leads to unjust decisions, particularly the rejected ones without reasons.

tldr

  • developers may not like to risk restricting it if the majority got used to that, more importantly the default models at the time are too ugly.
  • if workshop player models would be paid, the destination of those units spent would be a puzzle - creators left unrewarded if destroyed, potentially a new MTA if to the creators.
  • moderation of those models could be subjective, regardless of who would be the one(s) in charge.
1 Like