just stop
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petition to rename this thread to âpicking appart every small element of someoneâs argument: the threadâ
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Should this even be happening?
@mikusch
Just because this is off-topic doesnât make it okay to come into someones thread and just talk crap. I wouldnât go into your topics and say they are useless threads. Treat other people the way youâd like to be treated. Those that treat other people like crap are in turn treated like crap. There is absolutely no reason to be a complete dick when I have done nothing to you. Iâm not saying we should all need to follow rules to the teeth, but Off-Topic shouldnât be welcoming flame wars. This topic was meant to be positive and people are taking it in the wrong direction. Iâm not looking to have people starting another flame war. If you donât have anything nice to say, donât say anything at all.
Gotcha, so basically it was supposed to go hand in hand with the reference. Not much to say here then.
Itâs because that is not what this topic was supposed to be about. 
The reason that this topic is now about sarcasm is because you had taken it in that direction. I was never intending to say anything about sarcasm. That was just part of my clarification for why text doesnât have the same content that voice does. Maybe I used a wrong word here and there, and it may have sounded like that. But my only goal from this topic was to have people view posts objectively and without bias. Itâs very interesting to see your viewpoint on these things, but weâve gotten pretty off-topic. * ba-dum-tsss* 
So can we please move on from the sarcasm topic? Itâs not that I donât want to hear what you have to say, but I donât think we should be doing it in this particular topic. Shoot me a message over steam or the forums here and we can continue the conversation further. Iâm pretty sure most people have gotten what they needed from this topic. Even the trolls are out now.
No offense, but Iâm not looking to be âcorrectedâ when itâs an opinion like that. To you, this may seem like youâre âfixing a problemâ or âmaking something rightâ, but when itâs an opinion the only way to prove it is with fact. I might not have explained it perfectly, but there is not a chance that you can convince me into thinking text is better than face-to-face conversations. Iâd take text as good for understanding long and in-depth conversations sometimes, sure. But a good face-to-face conversation has you actually understanding what the person says. You shouldnât need to re-read(i.e. re hear) anything if you actually understood it. And when it comes to daily interactions, voice is KING. So much more content can be conveyed in a matter of seconds.
If you donât understand me IRL, then just like you said, you just tell them you didnât understand it. And I can quickly reply with âWhat part donât you understand?â and then can clarify that point for you/them. Then I can bring in different examples and what not. Iâm not really sure why youâre so against having to restate yourself in voice. But in comparison, a text conversation like this uses potentially 30+ minutes on just one message. Thereâs no doubt about it in my mind that voice is king. Unless youâre afraid to speak to someone, or your drunk or something, using voice requires much less time and effort on my part than physically typing/writing out a message.
I donât understand why you dislike having to clarify things in voice because it only takes a matter of seconds. I could definitely understand if you said you disliked having to clarify things in text though. Because things like tone are far harder to convey with the right meaning when all they have is text. If you use markers, different styles and fonts, and etc: you can make it easier to understand, sure. But thereâs no guarantee they properly understood your tone. At least not the same way that it can be done in a face-to-face interaction.
I think part of the problem here is youâre trying to, âwinâ and in turn make someone else âlose.â When in reality I am not looking to win or lose. My goal was simply spreading understanding and breathing more life and love into this community. I see a lot of negativity and itâs unnecessary. It drags people down when we should be supporting one another.
Sure, if this were programming that would be true. This isnât programming however, so Iâm sorry but this is illogical in this situation and nonsensical. Getting hung up on semantics just pisses people off; especially when you know what they are trying to say. Semantics != Spelling errors in programming.
Some might view it as âsavedâ time (or in the opposite, âwastedâ time), but I would just call it time that can now be spent elsewhere. Viewing time as saved/wasted causes people to not appreciate the now as much as they should. Time is never actually âwastedâ. You may have âspentâ it doing something, but that doesnât mean it was all useless.
Also, this âspeech disfluencyâ problem you speak of is because of the speaker/listeners. Thatâs not voice conversations fault at all. âA poor worksman blames his tools.â Thatâs like me saying all wrenches suck because sometimes I grab the wrong wrench. If the people involved in the conversation are able to understand one another, there is none of that whatsoever and conversations flow quickly and easily. Even when there is a misunderstanding or a mix-up, they can be quickly corrected with the utterance of one or two sentences. 5-10 seconds later and the misunderstanding is wiped away before further thought is put into that wrong idea. And there are facts to support that face-to-face interactions have more content available which makes the meaning (and reasoning) of certain parts a lot easier to understand.
When it comes to text, I could completely misunderstand your meaning, and in my reply I spend 2-3 paragraphs trying to reply to my misunderstanding. Only to find out with your next reply that thatâs not what you were trying to say at all. This has happened to me with you several times already. And itâs happened to you with me several times already. We both have misunderstood eachother in places with misunderstandings that could have been dissolved in seconds (had we been using voice in a face-to-face interaction). But instead we spent a lot of time talking about things that were misunderstandings. That alone proves my point that voice can be easier to understand than text.
Even things like body movements and hand motions can say a lot about what someone is trying to say. For example, if a girl is trying to tell you something and she has her hands on her hips, she might not be very happy with you. Of course this isnât the case 100% of the time, as are all other non-verbal-queues. But the entire all encompassing combination of things like the seemingly simple non-verbal-queues, tones, talking rates, hand movements, and etc: give face-to-face interactions much more depth than a typical text conversation.
Yup. Itâs been steered off course entirely. So hopefully we can stop the off-topic train right here.
As meharryp said,
You can tell its headed this way when someone says, [quote=âJohannesDau, post:39, topic:11257â]
My goal when discussing with someone I disagree with is to find the rationally âcorrectâ side or a compromise that involves having understood everything involved.
[/quote]
The main reason this happened was due to some basic misunderstandings (which can easily happen all the time with text). But because you think there is something that needs to be, âcorrectedâ, you are already viewing the other persons viewpoint as âwrong.â Itâs kinda like the USA where we go and raid third-world countries, and then we force them into âdemocracyâ just because we think its the way everyone should be and itâs, âwhats right.â Maybe in 2/3+ of all cases that may be true, but that one solution doesnât work for everyone. Maybe what they had before was working way better for them and they were happy and peaceful. Eg: Their ârulerâ was giving them everything they wanted and more, while not abusing their power. But then you try to implement your system and the system breaks and is thrown into disorder. This is an exaggerated example but I hope youâll get the point.
Not everyone is looking to be, âfixed.â This argument could even be pointed back at me for this thread, and Iâm okay with that. But if even one person can break down the wall of separation in their mind that goes, âoh its just a noob, Iâm not going to like his post!â Then Iâll consider this topic well worth the time to create.
I donât even know whatâs going on in this thread anymore.
To be honest, there really isnât a point to this. Just arguing about everything but being afraid to like posts.
Alright, cool. Locked.
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