Just sayin’, the tone isn’t always objectively determinable so it might be easier to attempt it in verbal conversations as it’s closer to natural human interaction but it’s not foolproof, especially if some of the people involved are socially incompatible.
I wrote “exagerrated example”, not everyday confrontation.
I wouldn’t bet on that. The chances aren’t high but Nobody…
Holy shit, you’re right! I’ve never before on the Internet ever understood anyone who even remotely used a sarcastic tone until they wrote the magical “/s”! I mean would I have talked to that person and heard the CHANGE IN TONE IN HIS VOICE I’d immediately known because hey, obvious. But in Text?! No way! That was a real eye opener for me, I’m infinitely grateful!
See what I did there?
Just to be clear, that was an example, I was talking about that general posting behaviour.
It just sounded like you’d think that was my real name and I wanted to correct that assumption. If I thought it’d be necessary for people to know my real name and I’d allow that it’d be public.
If we hurry, we can just finish the conversation. The topic itself seems finished to me, we’ve just mostly gone meta and went off-topic. (Which would be bad in any other place than Off Topic.)
Yes of course. I think you may be misunderstanding me. I never said it did and I was not disagreeing with you there. But you can’t deny that having some tone is much better than having no tone. (Eg: text) Unless the person doesn’t know how to use tone. And in that case, it’s not the tone that is the problem, its the person. Which is a different argument entirely. We can save that for someone else to bicker over.
I’d be willing to bet 99/100 people aged 18 and up can understand sarcasm without a hitch. Maybe not every sarcastic remark you make, but certainly most of them. I’m not talking about children. Children are always wildcards and it’s impossible to group them into just one group. Not to mention I wouldn’t be talking to them.
Not quite no, you’re misleading people. At the very least please read the OP if you’re going to try and inform people about the thread. Otherwise just leave it to the people who actually know whats going on and we’ll clear it up.
xD There’s a lot of text now so it’s become a little hard to follow. The OP says pretty much all you need to hear. But to sum it all up; I am asking everyone to view forum posts with an unbiased opinion. I have noticed some people (and I’m not going to put anyone on the spot here) hardly ever getting likes even when they have good content. So I felt like I should say something. It’s the content of someones post that should matter, not the person who posted them.
This isn’t a serious issue and many people are using the forums well and without issue. +1 to them. But I felt like it was something that needed to be said. I know we have some younger people here and it might benefit them to hear the reasoning behind this way of thinking. (In addition to those with their like circles and what not)
@Omnipotent is back and has answered the clarification PM that waited for him since I saw his last post, not sure if that counts as thread-necromancy but here we go, hopefully not much further:
Text can have a tone as demonstrated in the paragraph followed by “See what I did there?”. Seems like you didn’t see what I did there. Exaggeration of content intensity and amount of words, capslock and actual text formatting which - depending on the text type - is meant to transport emphasis, the closest you can get to noncontextual tone.
Basically, that paragraph was a single batch of sarcasm.
No idea if there’s studies about that and I won’t go looking for them here. We seem to have different opinions here, no need to discuss any further.
Yes, I understood that paragraph of your post was sarcasm. There’s no need for the passive aggressive remarks. Where did you get the idea I thought you were being serious? I think you may be reading into that a little too much. It can be understood through text with certain remarks, formatting, sentence structure, and stuff, sure.
However, the main point of my statement was that conversations are easier to understand (and also have more depth) in person/with voice. I’m not trying to say that it’s impossible to discern sarcasm through text. There are things like underlying tones and talking behaviors that can really only be discerned through face-to-face and/or voice conversations. That’s just plain fact. If you don’t understand what I mean, there are some solid examples in shows like Lie To Me. Some aren’t always as blatantly obvious, or even 100% reliable, but they are things that aren’t experienced with just plain text.
Okay, it might not be 99/100 exactly. I will agree that may be a little bit of an exaggeration. I agree we don’t need to get into studies, but if you feel so inclined I would definitely hear you out. I can pretty much guarantee that most young-adults (18+) understand sarcasm. And when I say that I am referring to the use of sarcasm in real life; and not through text.
Not sure what you refer to with the “remarks” but your statement that text wouldn’t have any tone after the demonstrative paragraph gave me that impression, hence the explanation.
I think we went pretty deep here. (And right now way off topic.) Also I find it easier to follow complex argumentations if I can read parts repeatedly.
No, you did that already earlier:
I’m not saying tone in text is always as easy to find as in voice communication, my point is just that text isn’t completely lacking it. Of course then the world of communication isn’t a binary text or no text and there’s gestures and bodily expressions that can’t be implicitly expressed in text but that doesn’t make the medium toneless.
Is there any way to stop me from finishing to speak in text?
Can you flag a post as being off-topic in Off Topic? I mean thanks to side notes on how we communicate here finishing the topic transitioned into meta-discussion about text communication and sarcasm but it’s still more or less a working discussion.
Your first post in this thread was your opinion, from then on I’d personally categorize your contributions as trolling.
why does this thread even exist in the first place, people can like whatever they want. if you want regular anyway you have to give likes as well as receive then
By the passive aggressive remarks, I was referring to the comments you make that are subtle digs. Eg: “Seems like you didn’t see what I did there.” I can’t read it without imagining an immature snotty tone.
That argument on tone is really just semantics. Nothing is really ever that black or white. I wasn’t trying to say that text has NO tone at all. Just that verbal communication has the full package. And by package I mean everything that comes with voice communication. If you seriously don’t know what I mean here, or are somewhat in disbelief; you really need to go out and talk to more people.
I see you fighting me on topics I was not contesting and I am starting to get a little confused. It’s starting to feel like you just want to pick apart every little thing you can? Or is there a method to the madness here? Arguments like these that are over semantics can be extremely boring and hardly anybody wants to read them.
Grammar Nazi PS: It would be “arguments,” not “argumentations.”
Pretty much everyone finds things easier to follow if they can read it repeatedly. Nobody will disagree with you there, that’s how us humans are. (This is a psychology study ->) If you see something once, you will probably forget about it entirely in 7 days. If you see it twice, once one day, and once in 2-3 days… It will probably last you 3 weeks before you forget about it. See it at third time ~a week later and it will probably last in your brain for 3+ months. If you constantly remind yourself about things you are much more likely to remember them, and remember them for a longer time. This goes hand in hand with rereading something that someone says, because you can pick up more on the things they are trying to say.
Have you ever had a conversation with someone IRL and after finishing the convo you go over what you two were talking about again; only to realize that there were some much better replies that you could have said? That’s because you were ‘rereading’ it in your head afterwards. In real life you don’t have 2 minutes to reread the persons message over and over. So it generally (not going to say always because I know you’ll fight me over the semantics) requires more skill and quicker reactions.
I never said voice convos are “easier to follow.” Thats a misinterpretation and I would agree text is much easier to follow than voice. My point is that there is more content to voice conversations and you can pick up on more things. It sounds to me like most of your interactions are done through computers and not through face-to-face interactions. In real life we don’t all have several minutes to type and need to come up with replies much quicker than that.
The majority of important interactions (and by ‘important interactions’ I mean things that better a person as a whole [Eg: Job opportunity, hanging out with friends, going to a party, talking with a mate/life partner, etc:]) that people have are face-to-face conversations. And you don’t have the time to reread the script over and over again. It’s worth getting out of your comfort zone and doing the tougher things because they get easier the more you do them (and you get more comfortable doing them too!).
I’m not sure I entirely understand the point of this post. Care to enlighten me?
Taking this straight from the forum guidelines: “If you are not sure your post adds to the conversation, think over what you want to say and try again later.”
Trolling at the speed of light… What a dick thing to say dude. Lets see how many of the forum guidelines you violated:
“Improve the Discussion” - Be respectful of the topics and the people discussing them, even if you disagree with some of what is being said.
“Be Agreeable, Even When You Disagree”
“Keep It Tidy” - Don’t post no-content replies.
“Your Participation Counts” - Let’s try to leave our park better than we found it. 4/7 forum rules violated - 57.1% of rules
That’s just spam and it’s not only childish, but rude and offensive as well. I don’t go into your topics and talk crap, so please be considerate and don’t do that to mine. The saying, “If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.” comes to mind when I read rude comments like this.
If the topic is still going, there’s obviously still some content being discussed. If you’re not going to join in, just move on. This topic was doing nothing to hurt you so why would you chime in with that comment? Posting something like this is just flaming and nobody wants you here if that’s all you have to say.
Yes you can, and you should. Any post that violates the forum rules is fair game for being flagged. I would definitely agree that his behavior seems pretty troll’y. The only reason that I could imagine someone posting a comment like that is to incite anger and negative reactions.
We have answered this question several times throughout this discussion. You can read through it further if you would like a more conclusive response. I never said people have to like things and you have completely misunderstood me. All I was intending to do with this post is to suggest people view posts objectively and without bias.
To copy and paste the answer I have given to the others taunting me with the same question: “It’s the content of someones post that should matter, not the person who posted them.” I am not trying to tell people how to live their life, just suggesting they view posts maturely and without bias. It’s in literally everybody’s best interest. Even newbs deserve a like if they make a quality post.
About that line in particular: I know it sounds weird. It was supposed to be a direct contextual reference to the “See what I did there?” and at the time I didn’t see any way to phrase that so it sounds less… weird.
Not sure what exactly you mean. I don’t want to start counting since how many posts our exchange is not primarily about likes anymore. (Which I don’t see as too bad because that’s how I interpret the forum category.) And I’m pretty sure you started out with the lack of sarcasm in text as quoted here. Now you agree that there can be.
A quick look into my dictionary and Google research disagrees, my choice of words seems to match my intention.
My goal when discussing with someone I disagree with is to find the rationally “correct” side or a compromise that involves having understood everything involved. When all the facts are available (Philosophically debatable as to how likely that is…), maybe even the truth. It’s not like a boxing fight where I can say “You win because you were quicker and my reply wasn’t as strong as it could have been. Let’s repeat the topic next Saturday and then hopefully I am correct for the following week!”. And if the goal is not to “fight” and quickly have a good reaction but to carefully find the solution best to everyone, you should always take the time to understand each other and make sure of that.
QED Text > Talking IRL
Also if you compare speech to programming, semantics are what can cause the subtlest bugs and I prefer my programs to be stable and maintainable by readability.
As a side note: Your rules apply to when I’m insult-battling good friends. Coming up with the more creative, goofy burn to throw at each other is an art form of its own.
I think that was just an pro-text argument on my side.
It’s a shame, isn’t it? The “saved” time is converted into speech disfluency, asking people to repeat or explain where they weren’t clear enough. Luckily daily life isn’t all about complex discussion and most conversations aren’t paused because you don’t know whether to say “Excuse me, I have noticed your Shirt might be on backwards.” or “Is it just me or does your Shirt look like it’s on backwards?”.
I answered @_Kpazz_Smokey_Mcpot and listed another example.
I have a feeling that the others might disagree. Maybe the thread should be in Meta. But if it’s moved now, that’d be probably too much off-topic.
I think he did. Do you promise to improve your behaviour?
Whoa there buddy, rule…s? We don’t want no anarchy in here, pal. It’s just Off Topic.
But I felt like it was something that needed to be said. I know we have some younger people here and it might benefit them to hear the reasoning behind this way of thinking. (In addition to those with their like circles and what not)
