The Casino, Farming, and what to do next

The Casino.

Arguably, one of the more controversial additions to TU. Some people are glad for the consistent draw of players, others despise it for that exact reason. I’m here to try and give a comprehensive, thoughtful analysis of what problem Casino objectively has, however.

Farming.

In order to make a consistent, sensible argument, I’m going to divide the problem into multiple parts, which I will tackle individually. At the end, I will present possible solutions. Please, feel free to criticize, suggest, and refine upon everything I say.

Part 1: The Death of Design Space.

Simply put, the Casino kills off almost any long term incentives there are for playing, because of just how much money one can earn from farming Blackjack, or any Casino game. Why would you spend fifty hours playing Virus, or Minigolf, or anything else to purchase some upgrade or furniture when you can just farm Casino for a relative fraction of the time? Why learn the ins and out of each course when you can just slam 2, 3, and space a bunch? This means any possible unlocks that Pixeltail might want to implement that are targeted towards experienced players simply will not work if said unlocks can be gained via Units. On the flip side, they will not work if they’re based on time spent in a gamemode, or experience, or what have you, as since almost everything in the game uses Units, and condo design and furniture, a major draw of the game, is based around units. Why spend time unlocking a new skill or a new map pack or even just play harder maps if, once again, you can earn more money and progress faster on your dream house, or a silly costume, or so on, by playing the slots? The argument “Some people want to have fun,” isn’t sufficient. Studies in game design have shown numerous times that a significant number of players will take the most efficient route to whatever their goal is, no matter how boring. If you need a specific example, take a look at Bloodborne versus Dark Souls. In Dark Souls, hiding behind your shield is the safest and most efficient way of dealing with an enemy, thereby promoting a cautious, slow, and methodical combat style. Bloodborne promotes it’s more frantic, fast paced, and brutal combat style by getting rid of shields for the most part, thereby taking away the player’s safe, efficient way of observing enemy patterns, and also restoring health for dealing damage after being hit. This leads to high level play of Bloodborne looking significantly different to high level play of Dark Souls, simply by changing what the most effective method of dealing with a situation is. No Dark Souls player is going to rush in, sword swinging, and willingly get hit so they can keep up aggression, because the game does not encourage it. Meanwhile, No Bloodborne player is going to sit around, waiting patiently behind a shield wall for their opponent to strike, and run away at the first few scratches they take. Returning to TU, as far as I can tell, the devs at Pixeltail want players to play the lobby minigames, or the main games, and have fun in a competitive multiplayer environment. However, anyone who simply wants in game money (AKA: everyone who cares even vaguely about unlocking new content) will soon discover how much more efficient just spamming away at the casino is, and spend hours grinding money in the most efficient, and the (arguably) most boring way.

2: Botting.

Botting is highly prevalent in Casino, as it is one of the easiest to bot in. In order to macro your way through Blackjack, all you need is something that will press 2, then 3, then space, and then loop as many times as you want. Even with the update that added the random key press check, that’s still possible to get past with some clever programming. This allows players to completely destroy the economy, effectively by letting them print money. Even if the devs keep patching out exploits used to avoid being detected, they’ll still have to deal with bots, as there’s always a vulnerability or workaround somewhere. This, in turn, discourages legitimate players, as they’ll spend significantly more time than those who just bot their way to wealth.

3: Economic Issues.

The Casino kills off any ability for the devs to put in reasonable high tier items in the game, and any possibility of player trading facilitated by Units. This is because the time it takes to gain 10,000 Units via Minigolf and the time it takes to gain 10,000 units via Blackjack are significantly different, and thus, to the farming player versus the playing player, the value of one Unit is significantly different. If an item is expensive for someone earning money via play, its trivially priced for a farmer. Vice versa, if something is expensive for a farmer, it is borderline impossible to purchase as a player. Following that, player to player trade cannot use Units, as they have little value to some. If a playing player wished to trade for a rare item to a farming player, they would either have to fork over an exorbitant amount of units that they almost certainly wouldn’t have, or give up a rare item themselves. Vice versa, a farming player wouldn’t ever even have to do anything to gain rare items, as they can just farm their way directly to enough money to trade for it. This ruins any possible player to player economy the game could have.

However! Not all is lost. This problem is not unsolvable, and there are more solutions than just taking out the Casino.

1: Chips.

This is a fairly simple and common tactic to avoid economic trouble from farming: alternate currencies. If one had to buy chips, or tokens, or what have you in order to play the slots, and they paid out in the same currency, this would completely avoid the disparity between farming Units, and playing for Units, as you could no longer farm for Units. Of course, this alternate currency would have to have it’s own rules and uses. Either it cannot be traded back for Units, or it would have to be at an unfavorable rate. Possibly there would be a Casino unique store that traded in Chips, that sold unique items, thereby not only making the casino still a worthwhile expenditure of time, but also giving players who simply want to play the main games a valid reason to play the casino on occasion as well. This means that the devs can balance Units around playtime, while not worrying about players who farm casino slots for hours on end.

2: Real Casino Policies.

One simple rule Casinos follow: If it doesn’t earn them money, they wouldn’t allow it. Why farming is so lucrative right now is due in part to how easy it is to win. Even if the payouts are relatively low, over time you make a net gain, and due to how quick it is to go through a hand of Blackjack, or one set of slots, this creates quick profit. Real Casinos, however, are rigged. It doesn’t matter much to them if one player wins twenty million in one spin, but it sure as hell does if they win their spin cost back and one cent extra every single time. High payouts abound, but they have low success rates. You may win a lot in a couple of spins, but the more you play, the more you lose. TU’s Casino works in the opposite direction. The individual payouts are relatively low, but are reliable enough that the more you play, the more you win. In other words, winning a huge spin should be extremely rare, but significant, while winning just barely more than you paid to spin shouldn’t happen half the time or more. The more you play, the more you should lose.

3: Earnings Limit.

This one, to be fair, isn’t my favorite, but would work. Simply put, you can only earn so much in a single day from the Casino. With careful balancing, this would turn the Casino from a gold mine to a supplement to the cash flow from actual gameplay, for when you need just two to three thousand more Units. The exact value of the cap needs to be carefully adjusted such that it isn’t so high that people remain on it all the time, but not too low either, so people still play it.

Conclusion:

Thank you for reading this post! If you have any comments, counter-arguments, additions, criticism, or other things to say, please do! I’m still new to TU, although I did put 40 hours or so into GMT, and it would help a lot to see how you all feel about the Casino. Is it a problem? Is it actually a blessing in disguise? Is there any solutions that I didn’t think of, or problems with my proposed ones? Is there a flaw in my reasoning? All these questions should be answered, and there are those with different sets of skills and expertise than me, and also those with far more TU knowledge who can provide a different perspective. So please, don’t feel shy!

Thank you all for reading, and I’m looking forward to see what discussions come from this.

3 Likes

Because I find gameworlds fun and the casino not. I don’t care how much time it will save me, I don’t want to grind in the casino. I want to have fun.

Both of which are really hard games that you need to play in a specific way to even SURVIVE. Tower Unite is, on the other hand, a rather casual experience, that you can play whatever way you like.

Yeah no. If that was the case, there’d be no people playing gameworlds. That’s not the case.

Haven’t seen a bot since the anti-macro update.

Won’t argue with you here

Alright. Overall I see what you mean. But why come up with such convoluted solutions when you can straight up nerf the casino/buff the gameworlds?

Different strokes for different folks. People also spend all day in the casino because they just want to hang out in the plaza and chat, so why not make money while doing it. I don’t get why so many people have such a problem with how others are playing the game.

This just makes it extremely hard for people with low units or new players, while making no difference to the people who already have millions. A person with 30 million isn’t going to care about losing 1 million for a chance to gain another 30 million, this was the case in Gmod tower, where only the rich get richer on slots.

Fair enough. If you’re just playing TU for fun, grinding is pointless, or at least not very enticing. This argument is mainly pointed at those trying to find the most efficient strategy for grinding.

That’s true! I probably should have come up with a better example. Here’s another example, albeit still not exactly hitting the mark: DOOM. The devs of DOOM wanted to make players focus on glory kills and melee combat, and wanted to discourage running away and hiding when on low health, which is why glory kills give so much health. They wanted the best strategy to be fun and risky, so they made it so that you’re rewarded for fun and risky play. Right now, the incentive to actually play the game worlds versus the incentive to gamble, from a strict mechanical standpoint, is far in gambling’s favor. [quote=“vtipoman, post:2, topic:19088”]
However, anyone who simply wants in game money (AKA: everyone who cares even vaguely about unlocking new content) will soon discover how much more efficient just spamming away at the casino is, and spend hours grinding money in the most efficient, and the (arguably) most boring way.

Yeah no. If that was the case, there’d be no people playing gameworlds. That’s not the case.
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While I disagree, after all, one of TU’s major draws are it’s gameworlds and so people who don’t care to grind are always going to be on there or doing condo design or what have you, I will agree that I was using hyperbole when I said “everyone who cares even vaguely about unlocking new content.”

It’s still possible to make one. Unless there’s some anti-botting measures I don’t know of, the macro check is still possible to be circumvented with the macro itself, just have it spam every key on your keyboard every thirty seconds or so.

Because nerfing the Casino and buffing the game worlds are only one solution of many. It’s not an invalid, or inferior solution, but there are other ways of dealing with the issue that allows for more creativity and/or different mechanical ways to balance the game. A hard nerf to Casino might just have people spamming trivia, or typing, or so on, to farm their money, whereas a more nuanced approach may still give farmers what they want, without completely destroying the economy.

Thank you for providing a concise, thoughtful counterargument!

I mostly agree with you there, except Casino farming almost completely cancels out any possibility of a vibrant, interesting player driven economy, and removes the dev’s ability to fairly balance the prices of their purchases. Otherwise, most problems that people complain about seem to be otherwise harmless to the game’s economy.

If that was the case with GMT, they’re still doing it wrong. Casinos are designed to leech money off of people who play their games for hours on end, while occasionally giving out money to those who just hop in and play for a couple spins, then leave with their earnings.

In order to balance in this form, I’ll create a hypothetical situation for you.

Imagine a slot machine that costs 100 Units to play, and has a Jackpot of 1,000,000 Units. For the sake of simplicity, let’s say there are no other payouts on that machine. In order to be a viable Casino machine, by the methods real casinos balance their machines, the odds should be less than 1 in 10,000, so that on average, it would cost more than 1,000,000 Units to get the jackpot. However, it’s still possible for a person with only a couple thousand in their pocket to get the jackpot, they just have to be lucky. This is how actual casinos work, and they make money every year.

Thank you for mentioning that, however, as I didn’t even know this was a problem stemming back in GMT. Or, at least, I didn’t know that it worked in exactly that way.

I would be in favor of the casino rewarding a currency that can only be spent at a reward shop in the casino itself. Sort of like prize tickets at an arcade.

2 Likes

Well, how the macro check actually works is that it kicks you off the machine if you press the wrong key, making it impossible to predict unless you were directly altering/accessing the game files to get the correct variable for the key, which would probably get you VAC banned. So, macroing can only really happen until before the afk check.

Oh, if that’s the case, the workaround’s easy. I’m not 100% certain whether or not it’s okay for me to say, so I won’t, but I’ve already thought up two workarounds for that.

Our goal with every feature in Tower Unite is not to force people some direction or into a game they don’t want to play. If people want to play Casino games, then they can spend their time there.

The Casino was modeled after a real Casino and we’re still adjusting things and figuring out what we want to do with the odds. But, again, we feel that if people are enjoying it and that’s how they want to play the game - they can.

We’ve already buffed Game World payouts post Casino release - so I don’t think we will be doing that again.

I do want to have increased payouts based on map difficulty, though. Which could seem like a buff, in its own way.

In the end, Units aren’t going to be the only way to unlock things. They are at the moment, but soon we will have tickets (for arcade), badges (for Game Worlds), and milestones (for Game Worlds).

We talked in great lengths about doing alternative currency for Casino, but that doesn’t solve the issue you are describing. We decided against doing alternative currency.

Also, the anti-macro system is not very easy to bypass. I don’t want to go into all the details of how it works, but we’ve thought of everything (while compromising for playability). Yes, there are people who are invested enough to make “fixes” but it’s quite hard to bypass without human interaction at some point. But the deal is, they’re still investing their time into the game and if that’s how they want to enjoy it - that’s on them. And if it gets out of hand, we have logs and we can take action.

We won’t ever do an earning limits, though.

7 Likes

That’s all great news! I’m glad to see that there’s already plans in action to make Units not just the only viable currency, and it definitely seems that you’ve already planned around any possible snags the Casino might cause in your future design space. I’m also glad that you’re taking a relatively lax stance on macro’s in Casino, as usually I see devs getting overzealous and ending up making a far too strict and unfun anti-cheat.

Thank you for the lengthy response, not only addressing my argument but also showing off plans for the future!

1 Like