After a small debate on a suggestion thread regarding whether it should or shouldn’t be moved, I think we could do with some ground rules as to when it is and isn’t okay to move a suggestion from the main section, to the workshop section.
Personally, I think Regulars shouldn’t move threads from Suggestions to Workshop Suggestions unless the OP has a change of heart and would like it there.
If a PixelTail staff member makes a comment about not being able to add the suggestion to the game for whatever reason, they or a Regular user can then move it to Workshop Suggestions.
I’ve also seen one or two instances where people are saying something should be moved to Workshop Suggestions just because it’s a small idea. I don’t think this is okay.
Even a small suggestion can be considered for Ranked servers, and people seem to be getting the idea that every suggestion needs to be implemented ASAP, which is obviously not the case. This is leading to smaller suggestions being put under scrutiny because “The game isn’t finished yet.” or “There’s better things to be worked on right now.”
Those aren’t valid arguments when a suggestion thread makes no mention of wanting it added ASAP.
There should generally be rules for Regulars about moving/renaming threads. Nobody was ever abuse with that ability yet, but safer is better in most cases. Although a simple little list of rules is enough, a whole wall of them is not needed.
That doesn’t really address Regular users moving threads over to the Workshop section, though.
Especially when people are moving smaller suggestions over for no reason other than “Not worth the time”.
If something is more fitting for a Workshop addon/mod/suggestion, and a Regular believes it should be there, then it should be moved there. There is a reason Regulars can move topics and they have discretion in doing so.
If a staff member believes moving it to Workshop was an incorrect decision, then they can move it back.
I’m pretty certain everyone who is suggesting a Workshop addon would like it to be an official, PixelTail sanctioned addition to the game, so there would really be no point to a Workshop category at that rate, but that’s not feasible.
I think we can agree, however, if the poster is addressing PixelTail, it’s a suggestion, and if the poster is addressing the community, it’s a Workshop suggestion. The only way to break that pattern would be, again, if the suggestion is impractical for PixelTail to handle (e.g. copyrighted content, fandom content, etc.) or inappropriate, and that ends up based on user discretion.
I haven’t personally had the opportunity to move threads like that yet, but it’s a general rule of thumb:
Is it copyrighted by another person or company?
Is it something that is mostly impractical for Pixeltail to spend time on?
Is it something that will appeal to a niche crowd and not the majority of the playerbase?
Is it something that we know Gmod Tower had that has been confirmed will not exist in Tower Unite (most playermodels, iMacs, some trophies, etc.)?
If the answer was yes to any of those questions, it goes to Workshop Suggestions. If the answer is no to all of those questions, it goes to Suggestions.
I stand by the statements in my original post, and I don’t consider any of these replies to be feasible arguments against the points I’ve made, but obviously I can’t do anything if the majority think otherwise.
Just do people and favour and move them back if an OP asks you to.
I wouldn’t move posts without stating why. Like I said, if it matches any of my four criteria for what makes a workshop suggestion (except for number 2, that can be subjective), it’ll be moved, and personally, I’d post why.
But if you want responses to your points, I can provide.
In my initial experience, it took time for me to get used to how subforums worked in this forum system. They’re not as obvious as some other systems out there. Also consider: A new user may not know better.
See my criteria. There are some where Pixeltail either will say or has already said no, especially the first and last one.
None of us do, either. At least, not from what I can tell.
This is a bit of a tricky situation. I bet that most people don’t want it added to the game ASAP, but they at least want to know it’s somewhere on the list. I agree that small suggestions can be considered for Ranked servers/sanctioned content, and I already said that moving suggestions because they were “small” is flat out wrong, but that doesn’t mean every suggestion must be considered to be added to the core game first.
For example, if someone made a suggestion for, I dunno, Krystal from Star Fox to be added as a playermodel, we’re gonna go ahead and move that. It’s copyrighted, we already know it won’t be sanctioned, but someone on the Workshop can do that.
Another example, say someone wants versions of the Bru-Ray players made that are branded as PONY and resemble MLP characters (a suggestion I actually made). That may not be a copyright issue (depending on how it’s handled) but that’s appealing to a niche crowd. Throw it at Workshop. Someone will make it.
A third example, someone has an idea for a small new thing. It could be something like, I dunno, an easter egg serving as a relic to the Wandering Merchant, kind of like Scarecrow’s mask in Batman: Arkham City. Just put his cloak in a small corner or a closet or something. Does it infringe copyright? No, it’s a tribute. Is it impractical? Not entirely, since many people (myself included) liked seeing him around the Tower. Will it appeal to a niche crowd? Doubtful. Most of the playerbase will be ex-Gmod Tower players. Has it been confirmed that it will not be added in the future? Nope. It’s a valid suggestion. It stays.
I don’t want to argue with you, but I also wasn’t aware you wanted direct responses to your points. These are my thoughts on the matter of moving things.
Far more in-depth than I would have bothered to go, but I agree with you entirely. Your reasons for moving are sound, and proper.
To condense this all quite a bit, it’s a bit silly for someone to say not to use the powers given to them with the intended purpose of cleaning up the forums. If your post is Off Topic, it needs to be in Off Topic. If your post is Meta, it needs to be in Meta. If your post is a PixelTail suggestion, it needs to be in Suggestions. If your post is a suggestion not feasible for PixelTail, it needs to be in Workshop, because what PixelTail cannot (or will not) do, the community (probably) can.
We are not given the ability to move threads with the OP’s permission. We move the threads because they incorrectly placed the topic in that category. Regulars are given the permission to move threads because they are a complement to the forum’s administration. We do some of the extra work that they don’t have the time to accomplish. If we surrender our ability to do what we can, that’s completely violating the point of the system.
If there are to be any “ground rules” for moving topics, it should be as DrDoctor said:
Perhaps there should be some sort of Forum Appeal section, in the case (which I have yet to see) when Regulars abuse their powers and themselves incorrectly move a topic.
You’re basically agreeing with everything I’ve said.
Not once did I state a thread shouldn’t be moved because it’s suggesting copyrighted material. I agree that threads like that deserve to be moved.
My main complaint is people moving suggestions that don’t ask for copyrighted content, and smaller suggestions.
I think you misunderstood the point of my OP here.
Like I said to @DrDoctor, your counter points are things I didn’t have a problem with in the first place.
I’m asking that you don’t move a thread because you feel it’s ‘small and not worth it’, or otherwise not even going to infringe on copyright in any way whatsoever.
Perhaps if you provided the example of a thread being moved because it’s “small and not worth it”, I’d be more cognizant of the situation. If that did happen, then I do 100% agree that was a misuse of privileges. Threads shouldn’t be moved based on an individual’s personal opinion of the suggestion.
Yeah, I’m going to have to vote that was a bit of a premature category shift considering it was a viable request for the Arcade. It could exist well in both categories.
I don’t really know what you want me to explain, but if you want my two bits, I’d say this:
Unless it is rather obvious that a suggestion should be recategorized as a workshop suggestion (or vice versa), it should probably be left alone.
This doesn’t mean you can’t have your opinion on if it should switch categories. Take my post in the previously mentioned thread, for instance.
I didn’t move the topic, even though I thought it should be a workshop addon. All I did was share my thoughts. At that point, I believe it’s up to the OP to decide if the category should move. Indeed, only if there is good reason for moving the topic should that topic be moved.
Size and time are definitely not valid reasons for moving a topic, but they can certainly be mentioned. In my post, time was my primary reason for suggesting it to be a workshop, hence the “might” as opposed to a “will certainly.” I’d be happy to see it be a reality, but leaving it to the community might get it quicker due to the current developement plan. The fact that it is small and not a major game changer means that someone of the community could easily undergo the task themselves. That being said, there isn’t any particular reason Pixeltail can’t do it themselves, so I left my opinion up for discussion.
Is it worth noting if a suggestion isn’t particularly big and wouldn’t be added in the near future? I think so. Should the entire topic be moved because of this? Only if the OP agrees and wants it moved. That’s my take on it, anyways.
I’d just leave it unless, as stated earlier in my post, it’s obvious that it should be in the other section. Maybe you could move it if there is a sizable community consensus, but otherwise I’d stick with keeping it where it is.